How do you know if he has integirty?

[catscalw]

What do you look for in the beginning, to clue you in if a guy has integrity? How do you evaluate if he is honest? So much of this site is predisposed to the belief that men are all essentially truthless and without any sense of commitment or integrity when it comes to our sexuality, it begs the question if you all are even looking for the qualities of loyalty and truthfulness. Or do you just assume all us men are simply lying, panting dogs?

What clues do you look for, in his behavoir, to evaluate his character?
Do you care enough to evaluate his character, or is it simply easier to fall into the same old tired, boring rhetoric, that doesn't do anything to communicate your wants and needs in the relationship, and reinforces a polarized and predictable cliche' ?

[rosebuttons]

To be honest with you I don’t think all men are bad; I do blame some of the women because they fall for the wrong guys, they go for the bad boys and they get hurt. In the beginning I look to see how respectful the man is with people. You can usually see any red flags within the first 4 dates with someone. Women tend not to look beyond the fantasy of what it could be instead of really looking at the guy for who he is. It is hard when you are hurt to trust the next guy but that is only going to bring you the same type of men if you know what I mean. You attract what you’re putting out with your negativity. I was deceived in a really bad way once but when I look back it was my fault in part because the red flags of this mans behavior were there and I failed to see it. Lessons have to be learned and behaviors have to be changed within yourself in order to choose the right person for you. You have to expect to kiss a few frogs in your life in order to find your prince.

[Chalene]

First, if a guy is posted here, he does not have integrity no matter how many excuses he has. Good guys do not end up on DDHG or Womansavers.

Second, Any NEW great guy you meet is someone elses, ex and most likely ex nightmare. Find out WHY his last relationship ended. If he is not willing to have you meet her in person, he is lying to you.

Third, Any man who does not pay court ordered child support does not have integrity, or complains about it. These men have the energy and persistence to have sex with a woman but don't want to do the work that comes after the fun part is over.

Fourth, Any man who is the victim is many times a sociopath. Read The Sociopath Next Door. Your eyes will be opened to a type of predator who gains your sympathy, trust, and money by appealing to your nurturing side. They are evil, but they manipulate a woman by appearing to be a poor damaged victim who just needs GOD or a caring woman in his life since everyone else has mistreated him. Beware of Christian Churches - many of these type of men target vulnerable, hurting woman in the churches

Fifth, Any man who can not hold a job, for whatever reason. Many men, especially as they age, look for a nurse and a purse. They want to younger woman to help them achieve what they didn't because they made such bad decisions in their own lives. They won't have health insurance; will rent - sometimes only a room, or be living with a roomate even though they are in their 40s, have NOTHING in retirement. They are parasites and have no intergity or conscience no matter how convincing they mey seem.

[catscalw]

Wow, I always seem to forget that, here on DDHG.com, the emotional volume is WAY up, and people seem to be predisposed, and incontrovertibly limited to the idea that all men are predators and pigs. I think it is most telling, Chalene, that of the five examples you give in your post, none of them answer the question of “How do evaluate a man’s character?” they merely support the Misogynist prejudice that all men are lying, cheating panting dogs…


“First, if a guy is posted here, he does not have integrity no matter how many excuses he has. Good guys do not end up on DDHG or Womansavers.”

This may be true, I don’t have enough experience to know, but it seems like it follows. I suppose there are situations where innocent men are unjustly posted here, but the mere existence of the site and the vitriolic content strikes me as being genuine and sincere. It’s one of the reasons that I come here to post, that and the desire to show that the victim of infidelity doesn’t always have to be a woman. I have been a victim of cheating in a marriage, and know firsthand what it is to be betrayed when you have opened your heart fully to someone.
It is patently not the exclusive experience of women only, to need to learn to trust again and to experience the grief and loss that comes with discovering that your spouse has slept with someone else. Sadness, grief, and black despair don’t know any one gender exclusively.

Second, Any NEW great guy you meet is someone else’s, ex and most likely ex nightmare. Find out WHY his last relationship ended. If he is not willing to have you meet her in person, he is lying to you.

Again, this seems to be a stilted perspective on my gender. Are you suggesting that you have the right to meet anyone’s ex in person?
Would you submit to such unilateral and Gestapo conditions? Don’t state such opinions as fact. Not only is this statement misguided, but no one has the right to any information about you that you don’t feel comfortable disclosing. This is called ‘Having healthy boundaries” and is one of the indicators of someone who is emotionally healthy.

It simply does not follow that if someone is not willing to produce their ex for you, like a walking resume, that then they are lying. I don’t need, or want my ex-wife speaking on my behalf for any reason. She betrayed me, and has no integrity. I found out that she had been sleeping with someone else. It’s simply absurd to ask someone to produce their ex for you.

An emotionally healthy person will be aware of the issues that are their emotional growing edges, and once trust and commitment begins to build, they will bring out their less developed parts, their more vulnerable parts, and entrust the knowledge of them to the relationship.

Third, Any man who does not pay court ordered child support does not have integrity, or complains about it. These men have the energy and persistence to have sex with a woman but don't want to do the work that comes after the fun part is over.

This is absolutely true.

Fourth, Any man who is the victim is many times a sociopath. Read The Sociopath Next Door. Your eyes will be opened to a type of predator who gains your sympathy, trust, and money by appealing to your nurturing side. They are evil, but they manipulate a woman by appearing to be a poor damaged victim who just needs GOD or a caring woman in his life since everyone else has mistreated him. Beware of Christian Churches - many of these type of men target vulnerable, hurting woman in the churches.

I don’t know what to say here. With this statement, it seems that you close the door to any possibility of there being a man who has integrity. It seems that ANY male behavior is an indication of an essential and innate predatory masculine disposition. Yes, there are sexual predators who prey upon others by appearing to be vulnerable and damaged, but “ANY man who is the victim is many times the sociopath?” Simply rubbish….

As dramatic as these tales in Martha Stouts “The Sociopath Next Door” are, they are composites, and while Stout is a good writer and her exploration of sociopaths can be arresting, this book seems to me to appeal more to readers' paranoia, as the book's title and its guidelines for dealing with sociopaths indicate. It certainly does not speak exclusively about gender.


Fifth, Any man who can not hold a job, for whatever reason. Many men, especially as they age, look for a nurse and a purse. They want to younger woman to help them achieve what they didn't because they made such bad decisions in their own lives. They won't have health insurance; will rent - sometimes only a room, or be living with a roomate even though they are in their 40s, have NOTHING in retirement. They are parasites and have no intergity or conscience no matter how convincing they mey seem.

Little Sister, it is my prayer that you meet a man that will change your opinion of my gender, because that is what you have been expressing, your opinion. Stating you opinion as fact does not lend your opinion more credence, or authority. One of the reasons why I post here, even though I continually receive attacks, and PM’s by most of you, who accuse me of being the worst kind of male predator, is that I feel called to answer these kind of posts to attempt to show that there are some Men who have integrity, emotional literacy and who care enough to answer the challenge inferred by the perspective that ‘All men are lying, cheating dogs”

[rosebuttons]

Catscalw. Please dont let one womens bitterness bring you down. She must have been hurt in a bad way and has not moved on from it yet. I have met my share of bad men but if you really look at the person and ask questions the red flags do show up. Lesson have to be learned so mistakes are not made again. I myself had a hard lesson to learn from a con artist who used me, he took money from me, put my credit in collections and he was hiding a wife and family from me. But if I really looked I would have seen the red flags. A huge lesson was learned. Some people chose to stay angry and put blame on all because of it. I have some friends who are married to wonderful men and I have dated some wonderful men.

[catscalw]

Rose,
Thank you.
I'm not down, but I can't sit by and let this cliche of all men being untruthful be perpetuated. It is self evident that it is absurd, but seems to be reinforced by every other poster here.

In coming to try and dispel this myth, and speak out against it, I have recieved hate emails, pm's; with wild allegations that I'm some kind of wolf in sheep's clothing who preys upon the women here, by lulling them into a confidence.

It is not just one bitter woman, either...Yourself and Square813 are the only women here that are not convinced that I'm not trolling for an affair. I'm married. That may not have meant anything to any of the other men in any of your lives, but it does to me.

Part of this site's attraction is the power of a group mentality which can out a player, and encouraging the women here to take back control of the choices that they make in relationship. It seems to me that this can be a healing and empowering experience, but only if it is done with awareness and the consciousness.

Falling into cliche', steroetype, generalization and Male Bashing only perpetuates the problem, creating an even greater alienation between the sexes, and disempowering both men and women. It becomes a mantra, and an easy excuse to not do the work of making conscious, empowered choices. Say anything enough times and it becomes a belief. There is a fellowship of women, here, gathered in spirit to accomplish the goal of empowering each other to make more conscious choices. It is a beautiful and awesome thing. You all have no need to demonize men, and make sweeping generalizations. You are better than that; Be careful of taking on the worst aspects of the Patricarchy that we are all struggling against. Prejudice is a deceptively easy and softer way, leading nowhere: accomplishing nothing.

[NativeMoon]

I actually dont believe all men are dogs - just like i dont believe that all womena are golddigging B's. In other words its too easy to fall prety to stereotypes and I honestly think that most of us are sensible enough to not generalise. But I do think there certainly are more men than women out there running a game. Not even goint to put up a front - thats what I think.

To answer your question: Integrity isnt the easiest thing to evaluate but I guess for me it starts with little things:

If he says hes going to do something - does he do it?
This would include the ubiquitious phone call - do not say you are going to ring me and then dont do it.

Is what he does contrary to what he says? If the guy plays up to certain ideals in conversations but seems to fall flat when it comes to walking the talk...

If you are talking about judging integrity online then forget it - there are more people online looking at getting a leg over than not. Even in Second Life - the most popuplar regions all have to do with sex playgrounds, orgy rooms and the like. One man's business opportunity is 100 mens pleasure.

I think one thing that all of us can be guilty of, regardless of gender, is falling too deeply too quickly. And we excuse things that are inexcusable because of this crazy little thing called love. When the alarm bells are rining, and you know you have questions - thats the sign that there is a problem. But even here - some women are being given advice, words of wisdom they really dont want to hear - and out come the excuses. I firmly believe that we teach people how to treat us; you have to value yourself - easier said than done but honestly thats the truth. When you value yourself you dont settle and you dont make excuses.

But when guys give the hard sell from the word 'go' about what upstanding citizens of the world they are - run a mile. If I had money for all the guys that hit me up on networkign sites where I make it CLEAR I am there to promote my business, I could quite the job and retire to the high life....gushing profiles about what a wonderful family man they are, wonderful father looking the perfect love. Nobody worth 2 cents sents out a page of pseudo-poetic junk to a total stranger - especially they day they join...

Sound like a cynic? Not really - just been around the block enough to not be afraid to kick wastrels to the curb...

But consider this: too many "nice" guys are also the same ones that one ideas of perfection that most average women cant meet. They concentrate too much on physical perfection rather than a woman who is emotionally, mentally and romantically mature. If you are a strong confident woman - then you are "scary" and "over the top" and need to "tone it down". Never ceases to amaze me what some men will settle for... the same men that claim a good woman is hard to find.

[MysteriousLurker]

Let me throw a scary idea out here and then you can all hammer me and tell me how wrong I am.

YOU CAN NEVER TRULY KNOW SOMEONE

That sounds crazy doesn't it? Well, it's true. Some people do defy analysis, especially people who are extremely intelligent. Sometimes there aren't any signs to look for.

In the end, unless you are fully telepathic, you run the risk of misjudging someone (for better or worse). I have a very analytical mind and I used to over-analyse everything to the point where logic breaks down and paranoia sets in. I realised this in my mid-thirties and stopped doing it. The bottom line is that you cannot make a fully sound judgment of someone based on a few facts you have gathered about their life. What we do is often very different from who we really are at the core. Everyone makes mistakes. There is no "magic formula" for finding the perfect mate. The best any of us can hope for is to stumble around blindly in the dark and hope we get lucky. If you view everyone with suspicion you will never find what you are looking for.

Are most men pigs? Absolutely. I make no attempt to deny this. The rest of us pay for everything they do wrong. Statistically, your odds of finding a good man are quite slim and you will *never* find a perfect one.

As a man, I stopped looking for a life-partner long ago. I have learned to like who I am and I am comfortable enough in my own skin that I don't need the companionship of a woman to make me feel like a worthwhile person. I'm not saying I am closed to the idea of a relationship. I am just saying that if one never comes along I can live with it.

At 43, I have found that it is far easier for me to date women in the 21-26 year age group. Younger women haven't had as many bad experiences as women my age and they are far less jaded. Most women my own age have been emotionally ruined by a string of failed relationships and are unable or unwilling to trust.

I have no formula for finding the perfect mate. One does not exist. I am taking it one day at a time and hoping I get lucky. If I do, great! If not, then I am no worse off than I already am. I have nothing to lose and everything to gain by remaining open to possibilities.

[Guitarista]

Catsclaw, all of us begin with innocence, and the nature of romantic love is such that we tend to start out with trust.

When that trust is betrayed, it is a painful experience, regardless of whether or not we "should have known better", so to speak.

To be honest, most people do not look for signs of integrity early in a relationship, especially when they're young. We still believe in the basic goodness of humanity...unless we have already been kicked around a lot.

Many of us do not learn about the true pitfalls of dating until later on in our lives.

But, you ask, what are signs of trustworthiness and integrity in a man?

The signs are something it takes time to see. That is true, first and foremost...hence, it's a given that one should never rush into a relationship. I have done this and it has always been a bad idea.

I think that trustworthiness and integrity can be observed in a man's business dealings and work ethic.

That is just one place.

However, even that is not enough...but it's a start. If the man is honest in his business dealings and in his work life, and has business buddies and friends that show this, that is a good thing.

But even that is not enough to tell you how he will handle the relationship with YOU.

You have to look further.

Does he have family? If so, what's the relationship with them like? If it wasn't so great, did he forgive? Are they still in contact, or estranged? Has he made any effort to fix any of it? Or at least to confront it within himself? How does he talk about them? With anger, hate, or what?

Also, how does he talk about his exes?

And about women in general?

How does he address YOU? Does he call you "babe"? Does he need a pet name for you, right away? Is he uncomfortable using your real name, or the nickname you use with everyone else? If your name is Patricia or Pat, must you become "Patti"? Does he see you as an adult, really? As a real human being and not a doll?

And here's a biggie....based on "birds of a feather flock together".

Who are his FRIENDS??????????

You can tell A LOT by this one.

Are his friends ALL FEMALE? Then run for your life, unless you want to eternally walk on the tightrope of a relationship with a womanizer or someone who cannot deal with members of his own gender.

Are his male friends good people? Are they respectful of women, or players?

All of these things can tell you a lot and you should look at them.

It's okay if a man has no family. But if he is still filled with rage, or has walls around him that are a mile high, this relationship will be hard work, so you better be ready. He may not be ready for the kind of committment and intimacy you want.

If you don't need that, move on.

If you're dealing with self-esteem issues of your own and may take some of his behavior personally, then move on. You do not need the pain.

Never rush.

This is hard, when you're young. It gets easier as you get older.

Find friends, first. Join church groups or just go places and hang out. Go meet with people whose interests are like yours. Learn more about yourself.

Then, when you find someone you think might be the one, become friends FIRST.

Anyhow, that's my take on it.